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were unable to record our interview with Secretary Shalala
and therefore we don not have a verbatim transcript.
However due to the positive response on the part of
the students to our conversation with her we decided
to include as much of the content of our conversation
with her as possible. Two students, Alicia Weston-Miles
and Alison Alderdice provided this reflection of our
meeting with Secretary Shalala.
With the words
of Congressman John Lewis still fresh in our minds,
we walked quickly down the street to be on time for
our interview with the Secretary of Health and Human
Services. We were ushered into the Secretary's conference
room, where we rehearsed our questions and while waiting
to speak with the legendary Donna Shalala. When she
walked in, although only 4' 11", she filled the room
with excitement. She put us all at ease with her relaxed
attitude and at the same time, she had a special presence
that managed to keep us all on our toes. She gave
us very straightforward answers. Her responses were
immediate, yet perfectly articulated and well thought
out. She was very frank with us and actually seemed
pleased to get a chance to talk with young people. We
asked her, "What motivated you to choose a life of public
service." She replied , "John Kennedy inspired
me to go into the Peace Corps." She went on to say that
she never really chose a life in public service, it
just happened upon her. She never actively thought about
it, but over time her involvement just developed. We
mentioned that we had just come from an interview with
Congressman John Lewis of Georgia, who made the statement
that, "Health care should be a right, not a privilege."
We asked her how she viewed the issue of health care
in America today. She replied, "I agree with Congressman
Lewis. Health care should be a right, and we ought to
work quickly towards health care equality." She added
that we also have to work towards higher quality of
health care. "Good insurance doesn't mean that you're
going to get good health care," she said, "but at the
very least, every American person should be equipped
with some version of health are." We asked her,
"How does the Department Health and Human Services manage
its budget allocations when there are so many competing
valid causes?" She replied that they meet and discuss
the priorities and nearly everyone on her staff gives
her advice. Even the President sometimes voices his
ideas concerning the allocation of the budget. She told
us that she also requires staff members of one branch
of the department to sit in the meetings of other branches
of the department, so they are well enough informed
to participate in making decisions for each branch.
When it comes down to the final decision she said, "They
generally decide through consensus process." She added
that in some special cases the President will actually
make decisions for the department. For example the President
initiated the development of a "patient bill of rights"
to inform people of their medical rights. In the end
she said, "This Department has been very successful
with its budget. We have very popular programs." We
inquired how she stayed enthusiastic and inspired in
the face of so many different needs? She said simply,
"I play tennis." We all laughed and then she continued,
" I just like what I do. You're always on the cutting
edge. You're always learning. It's like being a perennial
student. And what I do actually helps people." She said
when you feel that way about your job it is not hard
to continue doing it even when things are difficult.
She said, "My job improves a lot of lives." In
talking with other successful women in Washington, we
had heard that Secretary Shalala was among front rank
of ground breaking, powerful women. We heard that she
was not only improving people's lives but that she was
also improving the playing field for women in government. We
told her that Alyse Nelson, from the President's Interagency
Council on Women, said to us that she was "redefining
the role of women in a high-level government position."
We then asked her to say something about the how she
would like to continue to see the role of women redefined. She
answered by saying, "I would like them (women) to be
just as powerful as men. We have proven that there is
no job that we can't handle." She went on to say, "People
used to believe that women couldn't handle a complex
job, however that stereotype has been disproved. Women
make good, tough managers. We have broken the glass
ceiling." She added, "President Clinton as significantly
contributed to the achievement of women in politics
by appointing more than half the women ever to be in
the Cabinet, more then every other President combined."
We told her that Carolyn Becraft in her final
advice to us said to us that, "If you have never failed
you have never learned." So we wanted to know, what
sort of failures have been her teachers along the way?
She told us "Failure and making mistakes have been my
best teachers. They (the media and the public) want
people who have never made mistakes. My problem is I
don't want those people working for me. These are big
important jobs, and I don't want someone who's never
made a mistake." She said that it is a shame that people
in government are so highly scrutinized. "People expect
government officials to have a perfect record, but we
need people that have made mistakes and know how to
deal with them. The issue with good leadership is not
if you've made a mistake, it's how you deal with it.
There is value in making mistakes, as long as you learn
to deal with them and move on. I know right now, someone
in my department is doing something stupid. (laughter)
I know it. But I'm not worried about it because we have
a system in place to handle it." She went on to
say that, "In order to be a leader you must listen to
people. You can't lead without others behind you. In
order to lead you need to have followers, and it will
be easier to have followers if you listen to what people
have to say." She said that at times she worries about
being isolated, but having that awarness in the back
of her mind helps her to remember to listen to both
sides. She concluded, "My failures have taught me a
lot." Our next question went as follows, "Vartan
Gregorian said, 'We must treat each other and the people
who come here not as categories, but as individuals.'
You have led the fight against racial and ethnic disparities.
Is it possible for the government to treat people as
individuals and still act effectively in diminishing
these disparities?" She answered by saying that,
"We need to do both. We have to make sure people aren't
numbers, but we also have to close the gap between whites
and minorities." She told us that on average, minorities
that have the same health insurance as non-minorities
receive poorer quality of care. Part of this is due
to people knowing what is available and being educated
how to use the system. She said, "Mobilization
is very important." The information can be spread in
many different ways, such as being printed on diaper
packages." Often she said, sometimes public service
announcements cause people not to want to do what they
say , (especially teenagers). She said the media could
prove to be useful in educating Americans on public
service issues. For examples if "soap operas" could
manage to teach people about AIDS that would be another
way of spreading the message. We read her a quote
from Hillary Clinton in 1993, which said, "We currently
have a system for taking care of sickness. We do not
have a system for enhancing and promoting health." We
asked Secretary Shalala if she thought that we have
made progress since then in creating a better system
for promoting health? She answered immediately
by saying, "You can see the results. All of the indicators
are suggesting that things are getting better." For
example, during the Clinton Administration, teen pregnancy
and drug use have dropped dramatically. We followed
this response with another quote from Hillary Clinton
in which she made the statement that, "Our global future
depends on the willingness of every nation to invest
in its people, especially women and children." We asked
her where she felt we should be increasing our country's
investment? She fully agreed with the statement
and added, "I would invest more in education. The teaching
profession is under-paid and under-respected. A higher
education for women equals a better possibility for
the future." We inquired what she thought we should
do to raise the understanding about the growing problem
of homelessness in the United States. We told her that
in our hometown of Santa Cruz, it was a significant
problem. It was also a confusing problem due to all
the negative judgments levied against the homeless when
they are many different reasons for homelessness. She
began by saying that, "Most people aren't interested
(in the homeless). They just want them off the streets.
We need to get on the streets and out of our offices.
I consider homelessness a health issue, not a housing
issue." She went on to say that we have to understand
that it is a lot more complex than just an issue on
housing. Homeless individuals are often mentally ill
and have had bad experiences with shelters. These experiences
have led them to believe that the streets are safer.
These people need a different approach to the situation.
She reiterated, "It's a fundamental public health issue."
Government involvement in homelessness seemed,
at least in part, a moral issues, and in fact, most
of her work seemed to have some moral implication. So
we asked her what place she thought moral issues should
have in the public debate. We used the quote from Abraham
Lincoln's debate with Steven Douglass where he said,
"You can't separate moral questions from political questions.
Isn't it false statesmanship to try to make policy base
on caring nothing about the very things that people
care the most about?" She said that she believed
that the two things are tied together. "When we define
what our priorities are, we define both the character
of this country and its integrity." How people choose
to prioritize says a great deal about them as people
and their ethical and moral values. When we asked
Secretary Shalala about her commitment to the Girl Power
Initiative. She told us that "Girls from age 9 to 19
are going through a lot of changes, but to some extent
those difficulties are being ignored. We decided to
see if we could create a program to strengthen their
ability to negotiate their way through adolescence."
The best way she had found to reach out to these young
women had been though the Internet. "They need personal
contact." She said. "It is very important that each
of these young women are talked to one on one by people
who want to help. She felt another vital factor was
to allow young people to participate in the discussion
about helping teens through their adolescence. When
setting up the initiative she once asked a girl how
to help young women growing up today. To which the girl
responded "make me strong inside." Next we asked
Secretary Shalala to talk about her experience as a
United States Delegate to the UN 4th World Conference
and if it had any impact on her work. She started
by saying that it did have a great impact. "As Hillary
Clinton said, "Human rights are women's rights and vice
versa.' There is a singleness of purpose when we talk
about any kind of rights. There were women from around
the world, all with the same goal, basic human rights.
It was a kind of solidarity," she said. "It was like
a sisterhood. Even the men who were there," she added,
"enjoyed it too." We then mentioned to her that
both Undersecretary Pickering at the State Department
and Assistant Secretary of the Navy, Carolyn Becraft
told us that America needs to understand its post-cold-war
role in the world. They both said that it is in our
own best interest to maintain a positive global presence
and that we have to be willing to commit some of our
resources to create and sustain a stable global community.
We asked if she agreed with this opinion and how did
she think that we could best accomplish the task? She
said simply "Concern for the global family is self interest.
The concerns of the world are the concerns of the nation
because the future depends on the investment we make
today. Seeing ourselves in the global community is in
our best interest. We don't need the rest of the world
in terrible poverty. The political and economic stability
of other nations is in our best interest." For example,
she told us AIDS is destroying Africa. Now if it continues
and eliminates the youth of Africa, there will be no
leaders for the future. Right now it is sapping the
resources of those nations. Expanding their markets
would benefit us all. We need to make the case that
their well-being will add to ours. "The well being of
every nation is interconnected," she said. We
asked her how she defines a hero and if she believes
there are any modern day heroes? She said, "I find
heroes in everyday life; just people who help. I think
there are lots of everyday heroes." She went on to say
that, "Notoriety is not necessarily an essential ingredient
in a hero, but good intention is. Heroes are people
that do good in the community. They are people that
do such simple acts as helping the elderly by bringing
them groceries or shoveling the snow off their driveways."
She said that she remembered a man who gave up his place
on a sold out air flight when he found out that a woman
on her way to a funeral needed a seat. "People like
that", she said, "are heroes. They don't necessarily
have to accomplish something huge." We asked her
what was the most important advice that she could give
to our generation? "Making a contribution to your
community will help you live a more happy and well rounded
life," she stated. "Find some time to contribute. Get
involved on any level in public service. That doesn't
mean that you necessarily need to join the Peace Corps,
or find a job in the government, but simply make a contribution
to your community. No matter what career you choose,
make a contribution. It can be in your local community.
It doesn't have to be a huge contribution, but make
it part of our life. Find a charity you want to work
with. But don't make you life too busy. Make sure to
spend time with your friends and family. No one ever
died and say 'I wish I had worked harder.' It's a balance.
I think most people in Washington work too hard. It
is important to do your job well but take care take
of your family also. These days people are working too
hard with too long of hours. We've also got to have
fun." Next we described something that Philosopher
Jacob Needleman calls "conscious time." It is when one
goes through an extraordinary experience and is able
to see everything more clearly for a short time. We
asked her if there was ever a time in her life like
that and if so what affect did it have on her life. She
answered by saying that every year something happens
to her that helps everything to become a little clearer.
It is those times, she said, when you discover what
kind of metal you are made of. "I'll just be sitting
somewhere and suddenly everything makes sense." For
example she said, she was at the Beijing UN 4th World
conference on Women, and she had to ride the bus with
the press instead of being with the other delegates.
The bus stopped in the middle of a downpour and everyone
had to walk to the conference through the rain. Groups
of soldiers were blocking the entrance, attempting to
keep people out. She just had to push her way through
knowing she needed to get inside and she would not take
no for and answer. She said that from that experience
she learned to just keep going and to push forward.
In our final question of the interview we asked
her if she believed that she was living a life of meaning
and if so how. She responded saying that, "A life of
meaning is not a finish line and you cross and then
you can relax. A life of meaning is one that is lived
day by day and hour-by-hour. It doesn't stop with a
singular moment. I think you have to keep moving, working
at it, you never quite get it." You have to balance
your career and family, she said. "I am having fun in
my work." In fact she says it's as much fun as anything
she has ever done. That concluded our interview
with Donna Shalala, an altogether inspiring human being.
We came away from that interview, knowing we had
met and extraordinary woman. She commanded respect.
She was surrounded by this fire and energy, which
you could feel from across the room. She is someone,
someone with purpose and intelligence.
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